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That's what is going on, everybody. Welcome back to another brand new rubbed beat muscle podcast. I'm your host as always TJ. And today I'm joined in an interview episode by RD Garrido, who is a strength and conditioning coach and a super smart guy with a very interesting background, which makes for a really interesting episode that a lot of you guys are going to get a lot of takeaways from now. Before I get into this episode, I would just like to say 20 seconds to say, if you are enjoying the podcast, particularly the interviews, let me know by giving five star reviews on apple podcasts on Spotify, I think you can do so on Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts, doesn't let you get five star reviews and will podcasts or Spotify is the way forward that really does help out. If that still is not quite convenient for you sharing this podcast on your Instagram stories and tagging us at Robbie muscle on. Really also helps out if you're watching on the YouTube channel, just giving a thumbs up and leaving a comment, makes the world of difference. You can say a comment in reaction to anything audio or I say, or you can just leave a comment just to help out the algorithm. All comments really do help out the algorithm and they make a huge difference to us. And we'd be greatly appreciative of that. Obviously then pursue more strength and conditioning discussions on the podcast, or just keep growing the show and keep providing you with content on the YouTube, on the podcasts that you can enjoy with that in mind, let's get into this episode right away. Let's go. So I, I found when I was coaching in in Portugal, I did like a, of two months coaching in actual Portugal. And you have to choose your words very carefully as to what to say for people to get the information, you know I believe that what they found, you know, like, especially when you go in a new country, for example, for me in Brazil, and now here in Japan is actually. Make everything that this complex symbol, yes. You can actually use just some key words that they they have a meaning for them, actually, not for us, you know, sometimes if I want to express the concept even using the, some Italian background, it's not going to work, it does not make sense for them. And it was, it was fun. And now for example, here in Japan is even I believe harder because Portuguese it's similar to Italian grammar. But here in Japan it's even, it's even harder. And I gave myself the goal six months and I'm trying to express myself always in Japanese because that's what they. The players need to speak to me, talk to me in Japanese. And I will try to reply in English and when it's going to be the time I will start replying in Japanese. So nice. We I've had a guy on the podcast before backhoe tenants and he coached in Japan actually started here. I've had a few guys from Japan but Taran said his first session, they put him in at the deep end and they just said, okay, look, go, go coach. None of these, none of them spoke English. He's like, go do this speed session. And he's like, yeah, like you figure out a way cause you, you have to you're right. You have to be simple. Even though the answers that you want might be complex. If you can be simple, they can find the answers themselves. And that's quite good because the answers aren't complex and they're probably different for. For different people, you know, from, even from like a basic technique background, right. Like not everyone moves the same, so yeah. That's how did you find yourself in, in Japan, in the first place? This is your first time coaching in Japan? Yeah, to be honest. Yes. Actually I knew Japanese culture before, because they had been in Japan first time in 2000 and 2008. It was the first time, but just the traveling. And we came here for the world series. The woman works here and Keith that shoe in 2017 and I met the high-performance manager now, or then I got the blue angels at that time. And since then we've been in contact during the preparation for the Olympic game of Tokyo, we had been here for our final preparation. And when I finished with working over in Brazil yeah, he said, are you interested in coming over and having an experience here in Japan. And I knew Raby the facility, I knew the team, so it was easier. And I came over in March because there was still problem with the virus. Japan was a state law. I'm not really close to the foreigners. Now it's opening a little bit more. So end of March, I came here and yeah, now in the beautiful place and I got to, and enjoying the culture, a good food. And I believe Japan, you know, like after the workup, the main workup, the investment in rugby and the professionalism went up. And so even the, even the rugby said. And the investment is going to be it's professional. So yeah, there is all the support from the CD, from the concert. And so you have almost everything here. The set up for example is really good. We have really good field gym. We have the pool close to the cost-wise and make everything easier to plan as SNC, coachee easily. That's cool. Interesting though, because one of the reasons that we originally going to speak when you first contacted me back, when you were coaching for Brazil was about dealing, you know, maybe the struggles that we deal with with tier two nations. And, and maybe even now you can have a better comparison cause you can see all, this is actually what happens when the investment is like really there, you know before we do that, let's talk about like, so you've got quite an interesting background, so you're, you're a thorough originally and then went to New Zealand. So touch on that and how that sort of influenced your career and then ended up being as a rugby strength and conditioning coach. It's it's funny because so I, I, you said, right, I was a shut booster shot putter in this control. So my background is track and field. And I used to train in Vizio, good Olympic center back in for me in Italy famous for pole vault and the athletic sexually gained me even at that time I did not know, gave me a really good base of understanding of a running technique plyometric workouts the jumps medicine workout Olympic weight lifting. But at that time when I was an athlete that did not understand, you know, but in time when I went back and stabbing and starting the master's degree everything that makes sense. And so yeah, it's sad enrollment. After that, when I finished the master's degree in sports science, maybe look around, they need Kelly and nothing was coming out. And a friend of mine that he's working with Bennett interviews. And he gave me a conduct of that these these good friend now, actually for me, it's almost a father that is Jim Roth for my Maori, all blacks. And I went started, I started my internship over in New Zealand, down in Wellington, in the CDR really big community of minority and Samoans, and started as a intern and after three months he said to me, he said, oh are you looking, do you want to be my head strength and conditioning coach? And I said yeah, I love it. And in New Zealand beautiful, beautiful country. I don't know if you already had the chance to be. But it's definitely another country to visit. Yeah, it's on the list. I haven't put, some people are shocked to hear. I've never, yeah. Never made it that far. I've got as close as what, South Africa, which is not close, you know, south Asia, but Australia and New Zealand soon on the list. Don't worry about that. Okay. Like and New Zealand Maori culture or Samoan culture, actually our island culture, they all Pacific island. It's really, I believe, close to the Italian one and the culture of the family everyone being together. So the grade myself really fast in that environment working mainly with 15 and rugby league and netball. And yeah. Was even the rules for me. My, my second nation, I would have never left New Zealand if it was not for the Olympic games. That came up in Rio in 2016 a year. So that's probably New Zealand gain me the understanding of a country that is is really good in that sport. So for example take rugby because it's not only rugby, they they're good enough. A lot of sports. Rugby is the main one. And you understand how, for example, what they apply their non-necessary, it's going to function in another environment in another situation. And for me, it was clear because after New Zealand I went over to Brazil and it was everything different. And for me was clear from the beginning. If I'm going to try to apply what I saw in New Zealand in Brazil, so going to work and yeah. Do you think that's a, there's like a, it's a cultural thing, mostly from New Zealand that, because we've had this discussion a few times about, you know, how they're so successful and obviously rugby being part of the ingrained in the culture is primary. The reason it's not because they sweep the change rooms, which, you know, it's a good thing to do, but it's not like people sometimes miss the forest through the trees, if that sort of stuff. So what is it culturally about New Zealand then it makes them because you're right. It's not, it's, you know, they've got Rowan, they've got many other sports where they're not necessarily dominant, but further the size of the country. They're extremely competitive. Yeah. There's one thing I'm going to mention actually, because I don't think I heard it before, but in New Zealand, everyone as well practice, track and field, you know, all the kids at school, they have a try track and field it's part of that. So some you have kids practicing, throwing spring finger long distance running. So I think that one is a part as well to create that base or more my background. And after that, of course, 71 you know, most of them, they specialize in rugby rugby league rugby segments, of course. But the fact is these, you know, like when you get those players and when they get 18 years old or 19 years old, the reg blend the standing and the physical party already. You know, and when they get, for example, in a high level or high performance environment is just, I'm actually executing what they have done before. Why imagine Brazil situation it's different because you get someplace that they actually don't have big boom movement backgrounds, because most of them they're just practicing football. Yep. They don't have big understanding the rugby because rugby is not big sport in Brazil. And so most of the time, even in a high-performance environment is data gate is allocated just a bit. And if you want to do just 20% of that, 20% of that 20% of that is actually you are going to have less results. For me, there was the beat, get the big difference. And it's clear, it's clear because the understanding and the view of the game of those nations, it's nowhere, you cannot compare that with a tier two or even a tier three nation, or even some tier one nations, to an extent, I think like There's a, and this is a discussion I just had on another podcast with my, my fellow coach, Alex, who w w we're discussing the big, like the difference between the top 20% versus the top 5% is much bigger than you know, anything else like, like from 50 to 20, you know, and even that five to one is huge. The further you get to the more and more elite, like making those jumps is much more difficult than, than what a lot of people were thinking. It's, you know, yes, there's probably a big genetic component. Like, you know, New Zealand is have a lot of the Pacific Islanders or even just people that have the best students, you know, they have good genetics that they've grown up with and that sort of stuff. But as you say, by the time they're 18, by the time they start their professional career, almost, they've already got everything set up. They're not making up the ground. Whereas as you say, poverty, Brazil, Like, they would have to put all of that work in just to get to where these other new Zealanders already are. And then they're doing years of just extra dedicated stuff. So it's a, yeah, it's a completely different thing. Yeah. Like for example, before us was, was normal to have even men, 15, whatever seven, a woman and men, we have to put in count that at least four or five years of a high-performance environment, just to develop them, you know Y it's different situation in those nations. And for me as SNC coach, as soon as I understand that, as soon as I can find a strategy to make. Yeah, that's such an important aspect. And they of course influence as well. The technical part, you know technical and tactical, because the time that you actually spend on that part, you need to take the time off from you know, probably the SNC and that's just the way these a hundred percent. And that was actually one, probably one of the bigger thoughts that I had along this line was that like, because as you said, there's, you know, these, these top tier athletes, they get to 18, 19, 20, maybe even like 16. Right. And they're already close to that potential. Right. So everything else from then on, it's just refining. You've got, you have some athletes in Brazil. I know firsthand that, like they've got people that at the start rugby, when they're that age, you know, they haven't even done. Yeah. Yeah. So there'll be people watching and listening to this that probably started rugby at that age as well. And you've got to realize that it's not, then it's two things, right? So there's two ways you can go from that. Number one, you can go from the mindset of, okay, well, I've got this athletic background is a reason I've decided to come to rugby and I'm bet I'm a better athlete than a lot of these people. And that's great. And you want to look at Carlin Isles. There's a lot of examples, more on sevens and fifteens. There are these examples of guys that have come over and because of that, that they want to keep that right. You don't want colonizers to get slowed down, to, to focus on and become a better passer. But at the same time, as you just sat there, they do have to spend a lot of time doing that technical and tactical preparation, which even as professionals. We'll take away time from strengthened condition. And it's something that I say to cause I worked with basically exclusively with amateurs and I'm saying to these guys, right. You know if you're, if you're looking for that another edge, you know, it's doing more than five sessions a week plus on top of your work plus on everything else like you could, but why not just spend, you know, if you're only training once a week or if you're in off season and you're not even training, why not spend 20 minutes, 30 minutes just work in drilling your, your skills or different things like that. Those are going to have a much bigger impact on your, on your rugby. And I, I imagine it's the same thing with you guys. Like you have to say, okay, well this person needs more and more game time, which means I can't do as much with them in the gym. Is that how you would approach it with the Brazilian. He goes I'm going to bring up a really good example. For example, in the woman's side one of 'em we had really fasting, you know, Brazil is the first team on the world series, probably the tree between Dolly, Gabby and Bianca. They are some of the fastest on the world series with 32.5 kilometers per hour each. And we are, for example Lima, Gabby, she, she came from Jacksonville at the age of 20. So at 26, you know, like some of that model learning, he's already fixed it and it's going to be hard then actually it's a problem. If you want to change it that she came from trickin field, the hobbles. So mainly linear. The main work I have to do is first time, the speed first, the one credit problem on that side. And most of the work I was actually, you know, like trying at that speed to improve ability to change of direction to react, to react to a stimulus external one. And most of the work, you know, was done on record wise because this people was already there and as SNC culture together with the staff, you see, you can see, okay, what is the plan for these athletes we need there on the field. Her weapon is actually a speed. All right. I'm happy on my side fees, your side, where you need to do technical side, where you need to do, because probably the main problem is understanding of rugby, you know, and the contact part I'm not handling. And as, as, as you said, you know, that's just the mother of the signing, the better strategy. Because at the end, the performance is measured on the field, not just in this. Yeah, it's one that I get a lot with amateurs because they they're already, you know, especially here, right. They, they, they contact me because they think, oh, I want to do more in the gym. Probably that means that they are already done with the gym. Probably that means that they're already pretty strong. And then now hear me say, you know, okay, we probably don't need to spend that much more time working on your strengths. Like we, you, you know, you're, you're already squatting double body weight. You don't need to be getting more strong at this point is not a benefit for you. What, what you might need to do is just run 5k consistently and just get fit enough. And a lot of people don't want to hear that, but that's, that's gonna make a big difference because if you can, you know, if someone can hit hard in that first instance, but they don't hit hard, you know, because that's sort of tired or, you know, from your example, if someone's already really fast, you know, like they don't need to do. Need to have any time to do, especially in sevens, like they're already got the space, they can be fast, they can do all that stuff. They just need to figure out, right. How can I get enough basic skills? I can then use this speed that I already have. And for you it's yeah, that's, that's probably, she's at a level where the advanced athletes in New Zealand, Australia can't keep up with her and that's genetics or that's a training thing as well. Right? Well, she's already at an elite level where they're going to spend years trying to catch her up and get that speed. So she's got to make that difference and win on the field. It's a, it's interesting. Yeah, for example, here, you know, in Japan, complete different strategy, you know, apart of that, in this situation here, working with more with cloud environment, you get athletes from different countries, Fiji, New Zealand, Netherlands, Japan. So, you know, it's different strategies. Okay. Individualizing the work because you have athletes that come from different background, but that's, you know, another challenge you know, because with the Japanese that leads you, you may need to do some kind of work maybe improving their speed, their power, because they are really good. They have good mobility, good in the gym with some other athletes. So for example even Fiji you know, Have really good understanding of rugby, you know, my son times especially in the Jima, they still need to work on that understanding of how their body function regarding resistant strain. Yeah. So that's another, it's different challenge, different challenge in it's one of those things, if you want like it's, it's, they move already quite well. And you know, that's something that they differentiate, but there's a level of. I don't know, potentially that it's, there's a risk of being injured because there is an inefficiency in that movement, but they've put their practices slightly incorrect, but they've gotten so many repetitions, a good level to then make it work for them. They kind of get away of it. But then that would be your job would be to not, not necessarily correct. It kind of, as we said, with the language barrier, it's to sort of give them enough movements that will then teach their body to move slightly more efficiently. Would you do that a lot with your with your other tier two athletes when you were in with Brazil? Like, cause I imagine. If the, even if there were not, well, maybe we're not talking about the, the con the, the girls that have come over from an athletics background. Yeah. But we're talking about girls that have just played good level. Yeah. And they've been impressive, but they're probably still really raw. Right. So then they've got to do learning on all in all areas you know, like really good points. Right. The fact is these, for example, even men side is the same, right? The men 15 at the time when when I was as well with the manifesting you get that these are leads that they they come in the system and you need to do all the basic work, for example, that teach them how to deadlift, teach them how to support to do correctly, a bench press. And that, again, the challenge is, is sometimes that they come in your hand when. So most of their movement that they are already fixed. So the difficult part is what are you going to do? Are you going to break it? So you actually have a reduction, you know, in performance, the performance goes down before you need to go up because that progression required time. And sometimes it's actually, it's impossible, even if you try it and I'm not. Yeah. I believe it's esteem worked the time you invest, you know, it's still worth the time you invest doing that because I believe long-term and injury prevention wise, it's important. The show definitely for me, it's what the time you invest now, Performance wise. We need to be honest, then consider that as well. And to be clear with the rest of the stuff, especially with the coach sometime, you know, that if we actually go through or we decide to take that road okay. To work more on a movement efficiency now for them to understanding their movement in the space and it's going to require time. And maybe that performance is going to be affected negatively and the coach need to be on board with that. If the coach is not a model with them, And the rest of the stuff is not a board with that is something we need to consider properly because otherwise it's not going to work. Just the, if the SNC area is going to work by themselves, by ourselves and yeah. Would that be a time when there's like a, a tournament or a know you've got some sort of championship around the corner? They're like, no, I don't want to move this now. But as you say that the risk is that the injury prevention stuff has probably the biggest risk, right? You want them to, to improve? Yes. Also, you don't want him to get her. And then if they, you know, maybe it's a risk that people, and maybe even as a coach, you can be willing to take for, you know, if it's just playoffs and there's a couple of games, and then you say, okay, in the off season, we're going to break this down. But the more time, the more time you're doing this stuff, the more time you're your, or they are learning those bad habits and they keep ingrained in those bad movement, patterns and stuff. I know Brazil has quite a big bodybuilding culture as well. So I imagine that's where, you know, you get it in all levels of rugby. That's the influence because we don't have Mo know you mentioned New Zealand have the track and field background, which I'll want some, I want to ask them questions about that, but I'll say that for a second. Otherwise we will get our information from power lifters or from Olympic lifters or from bodybuilders. And then. Leads. Everyone's a think that getting big and getting strong makes you slower, makes you less athletic, which obviously we know. But tends to happen. And I think we said that we can kind of tell that happens because they move poorly. So are there any tools or methods that you use to, to sort of correct that and have people moving more athletically as opposed to being, I don't know, muscle bound or just moving poorly? Yeah. So it really depends on the athlete. Okay. You know, each each situation is different, but there are some common lines that they usually organize these way. So for example I like to divide the you know, I like to divide the production force production, whatever is in the GMO and the field. Okay. And the production force it can be done in all like fast or slow. And as well, the same thing on the field. I liked to work on speed and a multidirectional speed that these, that these are four components enough to bet. On the older side, I have of course, all of the conditioning part of fitness. So now from that side, so for example, if I want to have an improvement in the production of force and actually there is not the technique you know, to have a actually death benefit. Sometimes what they do is Y LA I try to create the role grammar the movement at the same time, I always give the option on some affirmative exercise that can still benefit the performance. Let's take an example. Some athletes, they can actually not do Olympic lifting. Okay. It requires time for them to learn. During the time that I do that kind of work. Okay. So I go to old learning imaging, all of them handling at the same time that leads will esteem complete medicine bowl, a medicine bowl, true workout, but is going to still benefit, you know, because the goal of the Olympic weightlifting is actually fast production force, you know, and that. Okay, why they're learning better at the same time, they will still do medicine ball workout. And that's where I still let the benefits while they are learning that movement. So at least they're really, you always give an alternative. Even if they are older athletes now, when you get some athletes, one way of injuries, that's different situation. Sometimes I've actually, don't go down to their road, you know, like if there is an exercise, they cannot execute. Sometime it's just, okay. Yeah. Let's find out if they've not the state of straight away, why leave? They are younger? I like to have this process. Same thing. For example, if you think about the speed you know, like you have an athlete that is really good lenient. Okay. But they need to improve their ability to have change of direction. And my is why they, with the little, a bit of stimulus of learning exercise imagine just ed read, you know, simple exercise, no reaction, you know Eldridge, well, they have to change your direction. 90, 90 degrees cut them back. That's really simple. There is no reaction. And while they are learning bit. They were less still doing some one, the one on the field to get benefit and understanding applied on what they actually are going to do on the field. They will use still, always on one side, you try to teach and on one side you try to perform that's for me by the Giudecca use. No, I liked that a lot. And I think it's the only final thing that I've found when I've used that style with athletes is that they'll get frustrated that they don't get the clean in like two weeks. And it's like, no, that's the point is that like, we don't even need to be doing this clean, this clean is for six months time, you know? Yeah. I also like to keep, I think we've spoken on this already, but it keep it, if you just keep things as simple, right. And your, your explanation there is perfect for guys that like you get an understanding that you can still get the benefit that the, the more complex thing is trying to do whilst keeping things simple. You, you, you know, you don't even need the complex thing potentially ever, but it's there. If you are learning it for when you need it and then you can learn and if you do learn it well, I guess it's just more of an efficient way, you know, like once you've got that to any of the biggest thing people will have against the Olympic lifts. And I'll say that I don't always use them, but for the same reason, right. Because they are complex to learn. But I've got people that I know do them efficiently. Of course I'll put them in because you'd be silly not to, because you'd get so many benefits from them in, in, in one movement. But they take, they do take a while to load the same thing. But then that's one thing that's kind of optional, but then. Like moving laterally on a field, multi directional movement. That's not an option. You have to do that. So you have to practice that. And it's, it's funny because people think, okay, if I can get really good at the algebra, then I'm really, or any, any lateral, I can be the best step forever. And it's like, no, like stepping people was more about the opposition. You could be a terrible step of, but go around people really well because it's a tactical thing again. Right. We can even go back to the example of if you're, if, if you're, if you're S you know, the Kiwis that are learning the game, and they're already established as an adult, like, they might not be physically as good at stepping, but because they see that space much better than someone that started the game, when they're 22, they're going to look like they're much more efficient, even if they're not. So it definitely goes both ways. But super interesting. Is there any other like tools that you can use in the gym? Either skill-wise or tactical preparation wise as well that you use for those people. There is one thing that we have used it, then I've used it in the past. He's a actually implement doing the gym training some technical parts. They mentioned with demand, for example, we used to do some exercise, imagine exercise, strand, exercise combined, and the ball, or can be medicine ball pass combined with both lateral bus you know, like these exercises I found them useful, especially for some situation or some kind of athletes. For example, here, I'm not using them a lot, but in Brazil we use them a lot. That was really common to have the technical coach together that we to. At the same time by, for example here, but for example, here we are not using too much. Sometimes they can get in the world as well, where, I mean, we bet logistic wise, you know it's just okay, if you have a space, big space if you have all of the equipment that you want, you can actually organize and really use your friend to see, you know, to combine some of these components while if you don't have the space, you don't have enough to keep as well as sometimes the understanding of the experience of the athletes. And you want to try to implement, it's also going to work or you will not see the benefit. For example in Brazil, we were doing a lot of them combine that with the scram position. Okay. We, the elastic band that was really common for us, especially for for our forwards. And for example, here it's a to be harder you know, like I feel I cannot implement the same. Why is that? Because they, at least they come from all different backgrounds, different nations. And for me, it's hard to implement that. And so yeah, having, taking that component in the gym happened in the past, but here, for example, I'm not blinded. Yeah. That was good to say. You got a button that makes it, it can be difficult and it's not like it's just some, it's a tool to use, I guess. Right. It's not, it's not everything. Yeah. Yeah, so mainly director there was, there is one thing that I really liked to work both 15 and seventies resistant speed. You know, like for moods a really simple, effective and you know, like, Definitely requires sometimes as well of a learning, a learning cube, but the benefit in my experience are straight away, you know, especially, especially on acceleration component, more than maximum speed in my experience. But definitely, you know, like as well, for example, we did a lot of work combining resisted speed steamed with the bowl in our hands, you know, that application and the understanding of. It's not actually just running fast, you know, but at the same time, he's running fast with the resistance at the same time, working with my arms, with my hands one of their work that we did a lot in Brazil and I'm doing it here is a bullet. So resistant speed. The first five meters release the load at maximum speed, catch the ball, you know, and complete that for 40 meters symbol, you know, nothing hard. But for me really effective and the athletes, for example, or sometimes they can decide that if they want to go straight, if they want to do it in cures, you know and that's have as well. For example, in Brazil, we use a lot about step outside and go outside and, you know, it's something that the athletes say, oh yeah, I can find, I can see the application. And it's really useful. I've used it in Brazil. I used it in New Zealand and I'm using it here in Japan as well. Yeah. There's resistance. Sprints are good because speed in general is it's, it's one of the most difficult, especially actually really definitely like acceleration. It's hard to, to, to work the technicality because you're, you're falling to the ground the whole time. Right? So it's, you can't walk your feet without overstepping or just falling over. So the only way to slow it to, to work it is to slow it down. If you slow it down without resistance, you're not really working your acceleration at all. You have to slow it down. Wherever resistance is the only way it works. And it has a huge benefit if done. Right. It's just that often what people do is they'll just load up as heavy as they possibly possibly can. And they're just sprint, although, you know, Something that they see and they just, people do too much. Like they don't clearly what you've done is everything that you do, you're thinking about, okay, how can I get this result that I want on the field? Right. What's the result? What, what's the difference and how can I make that up? Most people just see stuff online and then they just copy. I think that's a good idea. I, I said that in the passport, but at the moment the, one of the worst thing I see is really most of the vendors just copy and paste, copy paste, copy paste in my situation, when it's, you know, like here in Japan, they say like that, you know, he's actually, you know, like plate, you see. And after that you analyze your situation. Is it going to fit in my situation? Because it's definitely, you know, like most of the stuff that you can see on internet, you know, like maybe can affect positively athletes or indifferent environment. Yeah. You know, like I agree, but is he going to be right for my situation? Is it going to produce the results that I actually want in my situation with my athletes, with my team? Probably that's one of the thing that the moment I see the most, you know, the most, you see the same. No, I do. It's, it's a hundred percent. It's like, there's no people, people don't even think about what their outcome they want. So how they can figure out that what their plan is to, you know what I mean? Like they don't know what they want to achieve. They've never, or they have an idea, but they never really properly thought about it. And then if they do, if they, they know exactly what they're trying to achieve, they don't really know where they're at in relation to that, they just look at who already is there. And you know, that that's why you have people sweeping the change rooms because that's what they think it takes to be the all blacks. Whereas the all blacks have got so much other things that go into them being, you know the greatest team in world rugby for the last 20 years, you know, it's not the sweep and the change rooms. It's so many other things and that's, again, you, you can sweep the change room, be a good person, but that's not, what's going to make you a world champion. We'll actually go ahead. No, no, go ahead. You know, like in these applied for, for me as. You know, like for example, you said now you're in Thailand. No. And experiencing that culture. And there was one moment where, okay. Oh no, everyone would need to put jujitsu in directly. I do have the background and the ability to actually practice safely properly, and actually let the benefit as well of that component in rugby, you know? The, for example, sometimes you get to Kate some of the you know no jujitsu on training, a really complex, you know to apply. And if I didn't get, you know, a fair while trying to apply there, I think I okay. Yeah. Or you're really good though. All you'll need time to learn. Before you can actually do it properly. And you know, for example, sometimes he's okay, we'll step back. Let's work first on some pulling, pushing, fighting symbol, you know, you know, some, you know, just seeing that without just sort of Alinea without twisting it. And after that you stopped on your knees. After that you go up, you know, some rope providing them something more safe enough to bet you progress in something more complex instead of, oh, I sold that dream come from jujitsu. Yeah, let's go apply it. Yeah. Okay. Especially, you see it in pros and pros have got like a much higher level of force that makes it much risky. I think there's been a number of injuries for, I think from judo as well, where they have coaches come in and, and, and there are definitely, I like the idea of exploring other sports to see where you can improve, but you have to take elements. You can't take the whole, I mean, it's the same thing with people. They want CrossFit to fit into rugby, you know, and they say, I say is how you can take CrossFit and make it benefit you. Well, let's not do that. Let's just take a few things. One, whichever is beneficial. You know, I don't have to be doing double unders. I don't have to do a handstand. Like, and I think what people don't see is everything that you're trying to do, sort of adds in, add small things into, onto your plate, you know, and that you played Sony so big, even like yoga people think, okay, if I've got this, ask this question, you have a week, you know, I want to do yoga. That is that going to help me play rugby for longer? And I'm like, where's it? Is it going to make you stronger? No. Is it going to like, it's, it is what it is going to do is going to take away time that you could've spent in the gym or you could have spent getting fitter or whatever it is. It's not, it's not just something that is it's, there's no free lunch, you know? There's you have to, I don't know if you understand that expression it's yeah, it's just, yeah, it's not there's stuff. Will everything takes away some somewhere, right? You're all everything's on, on this spectrum. And I think like a valuable tool that we think might actually be a detriment to another athlete. And that's, I think, I think unfortunately for people listening because people always want, okay, tell me what my workout is, how many reps am I going to do? What movement am I going to do? And it's just the reason I do this podcast is it says, yeah, we've done 200 episodes now. And it's like, it's just, there's so many different routes that people can take and different ways people methods people can use. And then there's even so many more things that people don't need to do that others might. Yeah, I was, I was getting a check that we'd with private justice SNC culture, even though the Italian national team and you know, like, and we were talking about how hard in a sports environment, for example, for me that they come from track and field individualize, the work is really important. You know, individual sport, you just have to worry about one or two weeks and, you know, and like you can plan everything strength, training, power, training, whatever. just one athlete, you know, and you just have to worry about it. In a sports environment is so complex and, you know, like any, I said, oh, you know, like I always try to individualize. But of course it is out. And as you said, you know, for for who is listening for me is find the specialist, you know, someone that actually can help yourself understanding your situation, your environment, your training time, your experience, your background. And after that you know, like a specialist that actually can help that. And you know and create a programmer a plan you know, like. Everything for yourself, basically on your situation. Not what I think is right. And I try to, okay, this is what they didn't get. Right. I tried to squeeze, I tried to feed everything because I think he's right. And so you have to do it. No, no, no, no. It's the opposite way, I think. Yeah. Cause also like I've been in that situation as a player, you know, like, and probably everyone has as an athlete, right. You want to do something and then you see something else, something new, or you remember something that you used to do and you're oh, I shouldn't do that again. Why are you going, but you have to take someone else a way to do that. And then all of a sudden you've done a program for two weeks and has already completely changed because we're emotional. We don't want to we don't wanna miss out on anything. We want to be doing everything now all the time, so we can constantly get better. No one wants to do a long-term plan that we're, we're not even working on any speed at all for these first two months because we're building a foundation or we're not, you know, whatever it is that it becomes frustrating, you know, especially when you're in charge of, and you've, you know, you're a very emotionally attached to your own results. I think that's the biggest thing that is really good with an individualized coaches that like, they're not emotionally attached to your results in the same way. You know, they're not, they know they, they, they trust in the plan and they can stick to the plan. And even if you do, as, as someone that, you know, again, I've written down. I've done it before. I've written like four months of my own training. I'm like that this is what I'm going to do on this block, in this spot. But it lasts two weeks because emotionally, like I want to, I want to do more. And you know, someone that even if you are all that knowledge, doesn't help you because it's, you've got to figure out what not to do. Not, not what more things that you can do, you know? I wanted to touch on, as I mentioned earlier, the athletics side of things. So you said that you got, well, obviously you've got a track and field background. You said that a big thing that you see with the new Zealanders is that a lot of them get at track and field work. I think this is an area that rugby is only just starting to, to see and try to utilize. Do you think, and then people say, okay, I'm going to start to do plyometrics. And all they do is they just put some box jumps as part of their warmup. It's not even plyometrics. What. I don't want to try. I want to try and get something that we can actually take away. Right. Rather than everything, what are some things maybe it's just principles or ideas, or even if we can think of like some strategies or whatever, or even just movements and excise of themselves, what are some things, key things that consistently have success in track and field that we just don't see or don't see as much as we should do in rugby. I've been a good, good question. I believe definitely. You get a couple of them for me three points that are applied in track and field. But I've seen them applied as well now in rugby, more and more it's the use of the medicine ball instead of just Olympic weight lifting the use of hardware. To improve stiffness you know, implant, metric and power of the athletes. And now they're combining the strength training with power. So contrast training I believe that these three components are the I believe three meters that they are, they being used at the, in track and field for a long time. You know, like even when I was a troller, they were already there. I remember as a Trover I know that they were, was there was these capable, you know, no one uses over there. It was all rusty and now we were using it to just because it was there. And because we were lucky that there were some, a Russian troll where they came in in our Olympic center. And so I believe these components, they can have a benefit on regular too. It's both 15 and sevens. Now what these the, the thing line, and for example, in 15 especially when you work with forwards, you need to be careful. Because as you said before you work with that leads, that they actually are really, really heavy. They can produce big forces. And you know, like for example, if you introduce even some really simple jumping a high-dose exercise, you know, with big stiffness, it's a big load for them. So that's one thing that you need to take in town when you plan that anyone to integrate that in your in your reality in a regular 15, seven sees a little bit different, of course. And definitely made the symbol for me, you know, like he's always enough terminally. If your goalie's producing false at eye speed and you don't have to worry necessarily about the technique. And when I say it's not that there is not technique, you know, all the medicine, cultural but actually is a way easier to apply for stairway than you know, in a gym environment. We don't need big weightlifting now, combining imaging name, combining strength training together with some jumps or even a magazine bulk draw. For example, one of the exercises we used to do a lot was a squirt with 90% of your one around. True reds. And after back backed medicine, ball backwards, straight away, you know, three sets of bed, that's it. Same thing for example, with the bell, with upper body. We did that with the Smith machine the bent straw. So we did that with the 30% of your one RM on the bench. Okay. And that bleeds off the bed there. We're going into some, a medicine ball frontal, or even the, some landmine you know, landmine exercises. And those kinds of exercise, I believe they were Bennett. They were, they were good. So, you know not nothing complex and naturally simple because you can apply them in different environment. Not necessarily, you know, you don't need the expensive equipment. And I sold the benefits on the field after. Yeah. So I like the contrast training a lot. I'll go in the reverse order. So the contrast stallion, I like a lot. I use it a lot. It's especially for people that need to already strong, but want to be more explosive. Like they don't want to come too far away from the whites because that's what makes them feel strong and feel good, you know? Or maybe they even want to get stronger and also more powerful. Fantastic. Right. It doesn't cost you too much more time. But you get a big benefit. Rarely do I see a reason not to do it? It's only if you. I want to push that strength and you think, and maybe the jumps are just taken away from the rest. But even then, like, I think doing a contrast training is fantastic. The, the, the second one was the stiffness. Now a lot of people get this wrong with plyometrics, right. They'll do jumps and they'll do a landing, but then they'll land a really soft knees and then a bounce up and, and, and they'll, they'll think, oh, okay, cool. I'm jumping really high. And it's like, no, it's not about that. It's about being on the floor for as little time as possible. Right. I think we'll get there slowly, but th that, that, but that stiffness is, as you say, it's so much more force that you're applying to the groundwork because you're coming from our, you know, even, even if you're just jumping and you're trying to stay stiff, and you're trying to do that, like, that's, that's a lot of force and people aren't used to that. And because it's not, it's not. Yeah. Put in. Yeah. If you put in 150 kilos on your back or your, or even more or whatever, like you're feeling that way. You're not really feeling that force as you're doing it until it's like too late and you're rundown. So people have to be very careful with that stuff, but done. Right. It's fantastic. Right. Cause it is, it's a tool that can translate very quickly. Yeah. Definitely medicine balls. Now this shows me that you work more with teams than with like other individual athletes, because I love medicine balls, but everywhere I use them or I get my athletes to use them. We've. Broken walls. Like I'm like, why do you got, why have you got medicine balls? And then all of your walls are drywall. It doesn't make any sense. Like they don't have like gyms get medicine balls in, but I don't know why, like they don't know why they're being used or they're giving people, you know, I've had, at least in the last month I've had at least two or three of my clients say, are, can we switch out medicine balls? I don't want to get kicked out my gym. Like the staff are complaining that I'm slamming them or using them into the wall or whatever. And I'm just, I just think, why have they got medicine balls? And if, if you're not allowed to throw them, like, wha what's the point? But otherwise they're really fantastic now I've I always wrap my brain because, but people say, okay, can I do an alternative? There's really not a. Th there is, like you mentioned the bench press row, like plyometric, push-ups kind of it's too. It's way too much load. Yeah. Short of saying, you know, get a better gym or throw into a soft box or go with a partner. Like I think it is like throwing it. What I did in lockdown is I just said to everyone, like go out and find a place has got one heavy rock and just find a heavy rock and just that, you know, like it doesn't have to be a perfect shape, you know? Yeah. I believe, you know, like imagine imagine you as well. I think about just not totally it's, you know, just some common common people that just want to get in shape and always taking calm, no injuries. Okay. So no problem like that, you know, for me, the best thing would be okay yet you want to get feet and you're going to, you want to get strong. Take a medicine ball going the park. Okay. And that fun throwing the magazine ball, you know, and running the the backend for weather every time you throw it you know, just the finding way do you just, you go in the park, you stay in a open space, you see all the people there is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to carry big equipment, you know, just for PG magazine, you can experience exercise combined, you know you're talking to 17, 18 year old me here when I was at, cause I used to train at my rugby club gym and they had the medicine, but one, I think it was the that the movie 300 came out. And I remember watching the clips of them training, like Jim Jones. It was kind of like CrossFit before CrossFit. I used to go out and I used to do, like, I do a link to the field this far in the ball, different ways. And then I'll do two lengths, just throwing it everywhere I could. And like, I got really fit. Like it worked, man. Now I would do things that were different, but. That is, I think, I do think like they're not, they're not expensive to biomedicine. Well, maybe, maybe that's that's the solution is just get everyone to buy one medicine bulletin and that's their own personal one, but yeah, definitely. I think they're such a good tool. But like for example, in a team environment is different, you know, like you have the, the Sean's to using the indoor field. So you have more space, a lot of equipment, and of course that you can blend differently. But for me as well magnesium landmine is another you know, tool that I often in I often put and in my, in my training programs landmine character, Bella, of course you know, I believe everything can have a place depending about the situation and the athletes and the environment. The key thing is. Yeah. If it, if they want to be more explosive and more athletic than they've got to do explosive movements, like they get to a point where just lifting weights, doesn't cut it. Right? No, that's the why, you know, like if you actually want to get power for, you know, faster. Yeah, probably definitely. There is a benefit of maximum strength. There is a benefit of bed. Yes. But you'd have to go. You have to go, you need to practice as, as well, producing that force, you know, in a short time, because otherwise you are not going to get better in that. And I'm mostly, if you analyze on the field you know, like most of that production of force happened in a short time and it's, you know, a scrum maybe. But most of the time always the productional indef force happened in a really short time. And, you know, you need to, you need to have tools to stimulate. Yeah. I think corner on tools is, is what people miss, right? Is that their tools, as we mentioned already to get someone where they want to be there, it's not just copy and paste.

Tj 54:18

This is I'm going to add this to my plate, add this to my plate. Now that everything is a specific tool for a purpose. And you can't, you can't use it for something that's not the purpose. And you can't just copy what someone else is doing. Definitely this has been great mate. Now if people want to go find out more about your coaching or, or follow up more information from you, how can they, is there a way you want to be contacted? I am on Twitter. I'm like, I'm on a But only in Kadena as well, everyone is feel free to just stay in touch. I don't use a lot Instagram, I don't have Instagram and but you know, like Facebook as well I'm really open to share ideas and what I've done my experience and always keen to learn as well because you never stop learning.

Ari 55:03

And so yeah we, we did write some papers as well together with with NAR back in Brazil. So there is a little bit of research done that and we still doing some research on called the change of direction. So yeah. But mainly. Yeah, I'll get, I think, follow LinkedIn. I try and get people off of Twitter. Twitter is especially around I'm a rugby crowd. It seems there's a lot of aggressive people and angry people on Twitter. Instagram is not too much better. That's good, man. Like staying away from social media is a wise choice for sure. Yeah. That's the one that, oh man, this has been great.