Fraser 0:00

You know, one of the things that I do believe in is actually to get stronger as with two feet on the ground and two hands and a bar, I think that's a really good way to get stronger. But as we talked about, that's just one physical capacity that you need in rugby

TJ 0:20

And then here, we also, this, there must have been literally like two years ago at some point this month or last month, or I can yeah,

Fraser 0:28

crazy man. Crazy. It's actually like you almost forget that the goal of this season was actually to just play rugby, like to get back playing rugby was that was the goal week on week. So like I know naturally you're going into that performance kind of like you know, chasing everything that you should be chasing, but really. Don't take for granted that we're playing, we can regress the main

TJ 0:53

goal a hundred percent. And actually that, that comes quite timely to me cause my the team that I coach they, they they lost on the weekend to a team that we shouldn't have lost and kind of, because I'd rotated out a lot of the players. And it was just to get guys game time and I thought we were gonna know, I thought we'd still win. But the point was that, like we made a few rotations, I was like, well kind of we lost. But like at the end of the day, this wasn't the goal to, to win this, whatever we're doing this spring, like it's not important where we're building towards know next season, start in September ish. And so it's okay to lose now. Cause you've got to get reps in any way and everyone's got to get reps in.

Fraser 1:33

Yeah. So, so catch me up here. So you're back in America. Yeah.

TJ 1:37

So I coach a club side. And technical and technically I live here. So I travel about because I try, yeah. I travel about, because I work online. So trying, I'm trying to it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, social media is, is always the highlights. Right? Most of my days are fairly like we organize our weeks, like so rigorously. And it's the majority, majority, yeah, the majority of it, like anyone normal is working. It's just that when we have time off, instead of going to the local pub, the local pub might be something completely different or a beach, or it might be a town wherever we are. So it, I enjoy it.

Fraser 2:16

Definitely amazing. So, so your, your head rugby coach of the team that you

TJ 2:22

work right here? Yes. I make a point to not do fitness with them as well, because we have. 90 to 120 minutes, twice a week. Like one of the best things about rugby is how complex it is and how many different things that there are to work on. It it's like an impossible. So Eddie Jones said it's like an impossible situation to resolve and you want to try and create like a perfect game and, and it's even harder and amateur level when you, when you've got that, that time. But to spend that time on fitness, doesn't make sense. That's why, I mean, that's why I do the business that I do is because you've got to do that stuff outside of rugby side of your two-week practices, really? And then if you, if you get good enough, you get the high enough level and then you train all the time. That's that's when we, we go see, we have guys like you that step in and and take full control. How much authority do you have with your, with your bed?

Fraser 3:16

When you say authority,

TJ 3:18

as far as like, if your coach wants to punish them, does it, do you ever get things you ever have situations like that because you obviously you're in a professional setting. Do you ever have a situation where you, you will clash with the coach who wants to do something that is, you will see as a strength and conditioning coach unproductive, but he needs to, you know, either punished them with fitness or he needs to do something to get them together as a team or to wake them up or whatever it is, you know? Cause sometimes the rugby coach in people thinks they can incorporate fitness, but they don't even, it's kind of hidden because rugby is fitness in general. Right? If you just play rugby, it's still incredibly demanding, which is gonna be productive for you as a rugby player and productive in ways for fitness, but it's still got to be considered. Right? Yeah.

Fraser 4:04

So done to your question. Well, we've had a Biella three. Different coaches while I've been here. So it's, it's, you know, my first default is, is I would say that, you know, good relationship with a coach and then that kind of stuff, and doesn't doesn't really happen because, and there's layers to be ELA. So you're saying professional, but it's Syria, there are professional players, there are semi-professional players, and then there's, there's a bunch of players that you'll be working with that are really dedicated, but there's time constraints. So, so no, I haven't had a clash per se because we're, you get through a personalities and you get to know if the boys are I don't know if you'd like to swear on this podcast. Well, okay. If the boys are pissing off their coach, for whatever reason coming in soft there but. You kind of, you know, you know, your head coach and if, at least if, if on the spot he said, right, go and do this. And maybe a case of that, if I'm on field and it's something that's not planned then it could be just a quick, quick huddle and be like, look, boys, the, you know, what's going on and let the captain speak and then regroup and get back. So I can't say in the last four years at BLR, there's ever been a position where it's like, right, you're doing this because, you know, whatever the punishment like what's going on, could you still do that? It's not something that I would promote or want to bring up. I just think everything should, should have a purpose. You know, why are we doing that? And you know, sometimes fitness needs to be the priority and it needs to be done, but it's like, it has to have sense.

TJ 5:46

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's that's exactly the same reason why, like, I can approach my stuff as a rugby coach, like in a different light, because I want to give people the freedom to be yeah. To have the space, to do more stuff when they're away from rugby. And all we're doing is like skill stuff a lot of the time, because especially now where we're coming to the end of the season an unsuccessful season. So like, why not just get better as players? Like there's so much complexities because you've got, you know, you've got that aspect of like long-term skill development, which there are infinite amounts of skills that you can develop as a rugby player. And then there's also, you know, the, the team tactics for the following Saturday ahead of, and we, you know, you, you said on the other stream before we hit record I hit record by the way. I think you heard that the, you said that you're, that you lost to the team that you're playing this weekend because they'd really researched your set plays and they'd gone down. So that's time that they've spent away from developing their skills. And that's probably because their skills are already developed enough, but that's not most people. I think that's, that's such a, it's such a bloody complex sport and it's only, it's only getting more demanding and more time intensive. And I, and I feel for the amateur player because the game is getting. Like the level is raising and raising and the physicality is going higher and higher. All aspects of the game is getting better and better. So it becomes, you know, even if you are an amateur, you know, playing all the way down the levels, it's still a huge demand of your time. And it requires a decent amount of devotion. If you're gonna, if you're gonna really try and play your best, which if you're going to play, you might as well. We'll get back to your philosophy on your strength and conditioning. Cause I, I do notice some, some key points that I want to touch on, but before we do that, I want to ask. So you're based in Italy and we've seen a lot of, well I've, I've been noticing that for a few years and it might be be because of squid rugby on YouTube, but I think they seem like. They've sort of stuck. They're starting to turn a corner where they're looking to be competitive. Again, it was nearly a comment for how many years it was without six nations when they looked like they were always struggling. And then people always putting them down and saying like, oh, do we need to, every year it's like, oh, do we need to have promotion relegation? Then this year they were like, oh, we're going to get South Africa in the wa in the six nations. And then, and then they came in and they came and beat Wales in Wales. And of course, even people might not be aware of this, but the Italy, the under twenties actually had some success in beat England for a first time. So that's only, that's only going to bode well for the future for it. And the rugby. Are you saying at your level and if so, like what's, what's changing.

Fraser 8:24

And in short, no, I'm not seeing it because I'm not involved in any of the national setup over here. Although our president is he's with the under twenties for every game, I think he's I don't know if he's a council member or he, I don't know. He, he's not the manager, but he's there. What would the other twenties they've always had? And, and by the way, I think it was seven years ago for the national team that lost that won their last game. Cause it was against Scotland. I think it was 2015. So I remember that one. So yeah, so to go to them, the twenties, I know they've structured it differently this season and I wasn't sure if that was because of. Like coming off of the back of COVID or because they want to change something for the better. So for the under twenties, the historically been able to get better results than the national team. And under 26 nations, if they've hit fourth place, fifth place more often than the national team they used to use a structure where the academy would be so pretty much the, the Italian on the twenties team would play weekend, week rugby in Syria. So they were in our league and we played them and it's, you know, that was, it was always a very, very good game. They tended to peak, they tended to be at the best rugby, you know, for the second part of the league, because we were prepping for six nations this season. However, the boys have been very, they're not playing together in Syria. And they're, they're aligned with the, the proves squads much like the model is in Scotland now. If that has made a difference because it could just be the group of really, really good this year because it's it's age grade. So it was changing. It could be that the coaches are doing a really good job. There's there's a lot of factors. Certainly watching in the rugby club, it was a very positive atmosphere. Let's see. But, but yeah, it's hard to say. I just noticed this year that they're trading a different line themselves for the pro squads and for the, the national team to get wind and wills. Yeah. I mean, really, really difficult to do. But like, like you said, that was time that I think seven, seven years, I think I'm pretty sure seven years ago, maybe I'm wrong in that, but it's a long time to go that winning the six nations is a really, really tough competition. But yeah, I mean, there at the end result, you know, that's really good to go that wind, but they were still, they came last straight. They're still

TJ 10:38

sick.

Fraser 10:41

I

TJ 10:41

mean, it's wild. Cause why Scotland. Right. So then they, and then yeah, we want to buy

Fraser 10:52

that. Yeah. So in terms of the national stuff you know, I don't have a, a good insight into what's going on there for sure. But just things that I'm noticing and from speaking to people that are sort of associated with with the national setup, that's kind of what know what's going on. Has it, has it turned a corner? I don't know. What, what makes you say that

TJ 11:12

is that maybe not, maybe I've, I've always, I've always seen the positives that they do. And I think seven years without a win, it, like in the six nations is quite dramatic, but you've got, remember the high levels of the opposition that they're always playing. And a lot of times are like, you know, even with the losses, when they're like 30 or 40 point losses, there are those points in the games always only. The first, at least, or the first half or so, where, whether they seem to be playing some good stuff. And you're like, if they just, if they just click, like they'll, they'll be able to eat, like get a win and even get quite a comfortable win if they do things right. And they're always, you know, winning is a habit. And so they're so far removed from that habit. Like even when they play teams that they're significantly better. And I think they played do they play Georgia a couple of years back or last year, and they just managed to cross the line because they're just so unused to winning as a group. So I think they've got a lot of youth coming in the, like that they're not carrying that old baggage. So I do think, I dunno if they're turning the corner or wherever, it's just, they've just kept, you know, blunt force going forward, going forward and eventually like something's going to, someone's going to give and they're going to succeed a little bit more, I think.

Fraser 12:26

Yeah. And would you, would you bring in a relegation from six nations?

TJ 12:31

I think it should, should have happened anyway, just to, just to develop the game. Even if it's an end, you know, the problem is, is that how powerful the home nations and those unions are that they don't want to go drop down? I'd like to see it particularly selfishly because Poland just got promoted to the European nations DNA. So there'll be, there'll be playing Georgia in that lots. I'd love to see that. But money talks, I just don't see it happening. Unfortunately I'd love it to, I think it should happen. Cause that's, if we really do like rugby's at that cross point where it's either going to grow the game financially in its home unions where it's already comfortable or it's going to grow the game by, you know, trying to not necessarily compete with soccer. But go global, you know, because there is an opportunity for a sport, like rugby to go, go born. It is growing and you see the women's game growing everywhere, like massively. Yeah, I think, yeah, they should do promotion relegation in my mind. Yeah, I

Fraser 13:30

agree. I think it would be good for, from our specific perspective. You know, and, and I think we would, we'd love to see it, but will it happen? Like you said, money talks. I I'm not, not so sure. Not so sure.

TJ 13:42

Yeah. I think we're more likely remember the last year and that the PA during the pandemic, or was it before the pandemic that we're talking about that global season and they were going to put, like, it was like 10 teams all in one and there would be promotion and relegation and all this, and then it just got swept under the rug because money again, anyway let's talk strength and conditioning. So We said that you coached, so some full-time guys, some part-time some amateur guys within your club. I noticed that you, you're a big fan of heavy barbell lifting and you're quite a big fan of the Olympic lifts. Do you have like an overall approach to strength condition that you'd like to use with those guys?

Fraser 14:19

An approved or, I mean, yeah,

TJ 14:23

I I'd say like a philosophy. So is there anything that sticks out that you've like, you know, that you would sort of hang your hat on as far as how you choose to develop these guys as athletes?

Fraser 14:36

Not like, okay.

TJ 14:38

I know it's so nuanced because I would hate being asked this question. So

Fraser 14:43

I think philosophy and approach and all that stuff, you know, it's just taken exactly what you mean by that. So in terms of. You know, one of the things that I do believe in is actually to get stronger as with two feet on the ground and two hands and a bar, I think that's a really good way to get stronger. But as we talked about, that's just one physical capacity that you need in rugby. And also it's not the only way to do it in terms of approach. I would say that have a holistic approach because like everything counts, we have non-negotiables, but you know, life exists. Okay. Sleepless nights exists. And breaking up with girlfriends exists and, you know, just these things affect what's going on with a person which affects the performance that they can put in there, their mental health, their physical fitness. So That gets certainly considered and a program, maybe like the perfect program and paper. And the guys might come in and this happens many times where, okay, you know, your target is one 10 clean today for three that's your 80%, blah, blah, blah. But you can just see that that's not happening today for whatever reason. And we're using that to develop correct. Not for any other reason. So it's like, okay mate, I need you at this velocity. So I'm not seeing that. I'm not seeing with my eye. Nevermind. I've lost the device. So you think 90, if you had this, this 97 for three and it Luke's fast enough then yeah, we'll do a hundred and then we'll go up to 10 and we'll just step load it instead of patrol with it. But yeah. So I guess the approach is holistic within that, you know, there's there's processes then that, that I have for example I think getting strong underpins underpins a lot. And that's probably, that is the biggest gap between our youth developing athlete and going pro. So that's certainly one thing that's really important and it takes time to get strong. And, and like I said, it is, although probably that's what I show more of squats, bench, press, push presses, generics. Cause I, I do use the barbell lifts. It's not the only way to get strong and it's not the only thing to do. You know, one of my favorite quotes was from from, from a portion of Scottish rugby. It was saying there's no point in having a one 70 bench. If you can't do five dips on the rings, I was stayed with me. I really liked that. So I've kind of gone on a tangent there,

TJ 17:07

but that's all good. I think the point that I wanted to bring away from that is, and I. Just going to use to reinforce my philosophy is like strength. First is always a good approach. And it's good because, you know, I think when we deal with a lot of strength and conditioning coaches key is one for this. Like, you know, he always talks about how insignificant strength is for like professional rugby players or high level rugby players. I think that's because they've already met that barrier to entry. Right. But if you're already below it, like getting stronger is, is far more important than like so many other specific power things, because you've just got, you know, your engine is still too small. Like there's no point putting the, the most optimal. I know, I don't know how I always go to car analogies and I don't understand cars, so it's a bad example to use, but, but you know, your engine is tiny. You've got, it's just not working. Yeah. Yeah, you got under the hood and you're trying to make it all shiny and stuff, but you still got a tiny engine. So you've got to build that engine first and the same for aerobic capacity when it comes to fitness. That's like my overall approach is like both ends of the spectrum. And then the, the middle can cut will come along like quite easily. As long as you get those good enough then work on the middle because the other thing about the middle is it's also incredibly fatiguing compared to top end strength, which doesn't require too much volume. You know, once you get to ridiculous volumes, that's probably when you're strong enough and then aerobic capacity, it's not quite a lot of volume, but it's at such a low intensity. It's not going to fatigue. Yeah,

Fraser 18:40

absolutely. I mean, you got to take a little hanging fruit. You know that if you've got a young developing guy and you get him stronger by whatever means whatever you're using to, to train or assess that, like that's going to have, make a difference on, is this acceleration. That was good. And then make a difference to his rugby. Being able to absorb impacts depending what position he's in, make a difference in scrum, et cetera. So yeah, just taking the low hanging fruit. And like you say, going from one side of the spectrum to the other side of spectrum, totally agree. That's, that's really important. I think once you are at certain standards, so that you said there's merit for being more specific or tailored or just boxing a little bit, that's probably not the right terminology, but. That's what you need to be in that middle zone a little bit more perhaps. You know, there's no point in squeezing, you know, okay. You squat 200 kilograms, we're going to dedicate your training because that's what it comes down to. It comes down to like time. We're going to dedicate your trading to 220 squat. All right. Well actually, you know, you've got to scrub and wine out and then we also have to make sure that you're getting around the pitch and off, we need to account for that volume. So I'm not going to be able to put the volume through you to get you to that two 20 score at this time, but that's why you have a model of the year. And we would go back to that holistic approach. I guess one, one thing that's important is the guys understand. What you're doing and why you're doing it. And some guys wouldn't be interested. Some guys you can fill up the program three weeks before for the next six weeks, like the template program. And they won't look at it until that morning, 10 minutes before other guys want to know exactly the detail that we want to sit down and have a coffee, the one to know what you expect from them here and there. And w with regards to that, I use the bio motors ability model for the year. But again like that, that's just broad sort of capacities that you're, that you're looking out there. And then within that, as, as you know, with rugby players, you know, there's groups of athletes that you'll, well, this guy needs more of this. So he's going to be in this group. This guy needs more of this. So although there might be the same focus for, for the overall squad within that squad, there might be three sub squats. They're doing slightly different things in that. And then it was not even talking about individualization of, of things that come up from the physio or injury history. So yeah. They'll just help you manage it. Yeah,

TJ 21:11

absolutely. And it's, that's, that's why, you know, we do what we do, our coaching exists because it's not like if it was just a, a program and everyone could do five by five or 5 31, or. You know, name a better powerlifting program and they do that. And you know, it's not, that's not the case because everything needs to adjust and that's why we're moving into like AI. Now that's adjusting to your stress levels and stuff. But again, it's a lot about, I think it's more about the person.

Fraser 21:34

W w we've

TJ 21:35

talked, we've talked about like both ends of the spectrum, as far as strength and aerobic work. I also want to talk about both ends of the spectrum as far as like we've got strength and you mentioned how strength can improve your acceleration. We've also got on the other end of that power spectrum. We've got speed. I don't know if you've put up a proper video, I think yesterday or the day before about top end speed. And how you develop it with your guys? Quality video. I suggest people go more. No, it's, it's a real, like, it's just stuff that people need and actual stuff about speed. I think we, again, rugby tends to learn stuff from other sports. So power lifting, I already mentioned Olympic lifting or whatever. Right. And speed will learn a lot from track people, but the thing is with rugby is there's different types of speed for different uses. So what do you, what, what's your idea of like rugby specific speed and how do we go about training?

Fraser 22:25

Okay. When it comes to speed rugby, specific speed is getting someone really, really fast with a good rugby IQ. I think that they need to have the understanding and experience so they can know when to put on the gospel off the gas, but the term is, is game speeds. I guess what we're talking about. But ultimately you can, you can break speed down into. Acceleration, absolute speed agility. And just being able to identify okay. W w I guess it's like strength or anything that you're trying to change physically. It's like, where, where is the gaps? Where were all my gaps? If I'm an athlete like online, am I not fast enough at the top-end when I'm you know, I've got the ball and free and clear, but I'm getting tracked though. And then that would be, yeah, let's do more absolute speed work. Okay. What does that look like? It can be done with a bowl. It can like top end speed. I think what's really, really well was the ball kick and chase. The example, Joel, that put in that video that you referred to, like, there's so many ideas, so rugby coaches love that. But yeah, I think that when you're talking about rugby specific speed, that word specific is, is, is kind of a dangerous word. You know, like there's, there's so many different situations in rugby where speed is like there's Deeks elevations, accelerations and, and agility in game speed. You have to factor in someone's IQ and knowing, oh, this guy is probably going to go there. So I'm going to get there before him, even if I'm slower than him, because I know he's taken that line. So the perfect rugby specific speed solution would. Identify what physical capacity is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck. Now, if you are 16 years old and you can't do a single like pistol squat, or you, you know, you've never, you never touched the barbell in your life. You probably get faster by doing rugby with the rubber training and also just follow a really simple strength program that we're getting better acceleration to a point, as we know, you know, that, you know, you can't just keep chasing that rabbit. So, so yeah, it might be a case that, okay. You're you've gone through a full lesson C program for six years. You're 24 years old and you still not having the gas. Okay. What, where do you prioritize speed? Are you still following a four times a week gym program? And you're doing like one speed session and rugby, or maybe you're doing it. Why not let go of the powerlifting sports, like just do that once a week and you can make a jump squats. You're not going to lose like your strength in a block of six weeks. Just by laying, like on focusing more on speed. So I think the rugby specific speed comes down to identifying what physical capacity is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck going out and making improvements, measurable improvements, not physical capacity and couple that with rugby Joel's and rugby and watching rugby and just living rugby to increase your rugby IQ. And that's hopefully that's as simple as it needs to be in a simplest. Like you said, sometimes you talk about speed and ranting. No, but just bear with me one second. You know, you get a lot of people that they're, they're posting on social media, all these postures and all these complicated things that don't like, don't post results. I don't see them like, and maybe that's a data issue. I don't know. But it's like, do you work with athletes? I love it. I love the theory. That makes a lot of sense to me. Show me, like, show me that in a paper published in the paper a week, but you're not a published author. So, you know, just don't confuse people. Like just give them the information that will actually make a difference.

TJ 26:05

That's, that's something I've changed. I probably changed my mind on quite a bit recently. Is it with speed Speedway? I've stopped kind of telling people like the postures and the positions that they're looking for and less would like to stern like the real basic wall drill or the basic yeah. I will have the wardrobes if you're doing top end speed. Or if you do an acceleration, like both variations outside of that, like you're doing some drills and you're telling them what to feel for, but once you do the drills, the drills themselves, like, you know, basic ACE skips or bounds, whatever it is, they show. Like promote what you're trying to do as far as getting fast technically anyway, and then you just get enough reps in and the body will figure it out. I think if you look at you saying boats, sprint informed by all right, if you get these top, you know biomechanic people that, you know, think that how to run perfectly soundbite, mechanically, what you're saying bolt does is wrong. And they would apparently they could chop, you know, a couple hundreds of a second or a couple tenths of a second off of his a hundred meter time. Well, sorry. That's the fastest guy that's ever wrong. So how, how are you going to tell him that he's wrong? It doesn't make sense. I think there's just lots of different ways to go about doing it. But now it's like, yeah, less information, just more. Practicing of it. Like a lot of people love to overthink this stuff because I think it's the same with strength, same with bodybuilding hypertrophy stuff. Like people love to overthink it because it makes it, it makes them some sort of hope for like a magic pill. Whereas it's just like, how do I get fast? That will, how, how often do you sprint a week? Well, just a training we'll, you know, go out and practice sprint and that's number one. It's ridiculous how little people do that. And that's why it's so simple.

Fraser 27:44

Right? Yeah. And I think, you know, when we're talking about sort of close to skill Joe's and easy skilled Joe's that that might be something that that's something that a coach can lead you on. Okay. This is the product and the program is a strength, let's say, okay, your speed walk is in there because you know, you never, you know, You're always trading some, everything, just things on the priorities as you know. So we're going to do more of that because you'll be beaten up a little bit from the strength work. We're going to be more of the skill focused work on speed. You'll still be doing speed work, but it won't be the priority. However, once you've got X amount of strong, which is we get by the way, because you're working with me and that's why we're doing it before this percentage, blah, blah, blah. And you have to let go of that strength stuff and know we're going to ramp up the speed stuff because you want it to be your best on game day. And last time I checked, it was one of the most important things in your position, the athletes they bought into it, they understand why they're doing it. And sometimes the skill stuff on speed can be boring because you know, they might have to go through a process of thinking about why am I doing this? I just want to go in the ball. And like, you didn't this because you're trailing leg, blah, blah, blah. If we, if we practice this enough, when we've got time to, at this point in preseason, you're going to be flying. Cause we're going to make some changes. That I think that's, that's kind of our job as coaches to, to let the athletes know, look, there is a technical model. We are using the best of the technical model from weightlifting power lifting and sprinting, but you're a rugby player. So we need to make sure you're sort of within the walls of this technical model, but it's not going to be the most that you're not going to be in a li a hundred meter sprint. So that's okay. You're a rugby player. So just having a conversation with them, obviously we need to operate from a technical model as coaches, but recognizing that we're training rugby players, and there's a hundred things that we need to do and just framing, you know, again, identifying the gaps and then just framing. Okay, we're doing this here because, you know, XYZ, I don't know if you can hear the church going off in the background. So yeah, I

TJ 29:51

just heard it. It's all good. I wouldn't have heard it if you didn't bring it up. So it's it's fine. I think what you said about the chaotic nature of rugby as well is something that people will tend to forget more with speed stuff, then we've benefited else. I think like when you look at like a game of rugby, you, you might still get people that are relatively slow relatively on agile, on athletic, but they'll still make tons of breaks. And it's not, it's just because they've got that higher rugby IQ, like agility, I think is the biggest one for rugby IQ, as far as like it, yes. Moving better helps you move more efficiently. But if you, if you step too late, you ain't gonna, you're not gonna avoid the defendant no matter what. And a lot of people will make that. They're trying to step around a defender, but there'll be within within reach and, and it's just too late. I think that's something that people tend to forget about. So it's, again, it's just rugby practice. I think I want to move on to, I think you brought this up as far as going to private sessions for rugby. So when we're talking about primary sessions, I've posted one or two on my YouTube channel. I think it's a valuable time, particularly for amateurs because a lot of guys just don't have that much time to get in the gym. So when they do, they've got to prioritize their strength work, but they can't prioritize strength work potentially the day before a game, but they've got that time free. Like, you know, typically you get working guys that have some time on Friday free, but they're afraid to go to the gym because they're petrified of being tired for the Saturday game. What's your approach for primer sessions that you use with both your amateur semi-pro and professional guys.

Fraser 31:24

All right. So private sessions. Yes. I think really, really important. It's interesting to hear you talk about how useful it can be for amateur athletes as well. Having, I did an article recently on this, on my on my website and I was basically, it was a bit of a literal, literally lit review for me. And to understand, you know, we understand the effects of, of, of pregnancy, so potentially potentiation and affects your hormone status in a positive way. And what, what I was reading was. There's not really, there's a great principles, of course. And there's not really an agreed protocol. I don't know if there will be, but one of the, well, I should say the star, let me go back. We don't use primers. We don't use primers and something that I want to bring in next year and I'm actually gonna document it and use it as my, my master's thesis. Yeah. So I wanted to be, you know, it's going to be legit and if it, if it affects athletic performance, then, then also if it doesn't, you know, the thesis is still there, it would just say less private protocol didn't work. So what I was seeing in the research was there's also no it can be up to 48 hours before. So not since you did, we do currently use a primer. You know, I think that's a far reach. It can be the day before, or it can be the morning of the game. So I wouldn't even try a six hour, six hour before I want to try heavy strength stuff coupled with sprints and just see if that affects hormonal status positively which obviously we'll measure, I'll be working with zit mentors, university on that. And some of plastic jumps on and we need to kind of map all that and do a good proposal for this, but it's certainly something I'm interested in. And like you said, I can really see the value of it is something that I knew a lot of guys do I do before to fight. So BJ competitions I wouldn't want to compete with doing some sort of primer. And yeah, so something that I can say definitively like. All right. Well, Hey, this is, this is what I recommend, et cetera, because there's principles there. And I definitely there's evidence there's evidence. There's unquestionable evidence that it works, but it's like, it's such an individual thing. Can we, can we, as an industry, get it down to precise time? I don't know. Probably not, but I want to try to like a precise series of exercises, like is, is like French contrast training. Is that the best way to do it? Or is it simply some heavy strength, lifts rest? And just like, I don't know, but you know, if we do this podcast again, at some point,

TJ 34:11

I'll let you know what yeah. I'm keen. We'll do it. We'll do it again next year. Cause that's I've. So I said about maybe not doing the strength stuff the day before, again, like, so my prime has always a day before a game. Just because, especially for amateurs, it's just. The extra time, like before a game, you know, sometimes it games kick off at 12, sometimes even kickoff at like even earlier. And in general, you know, they plan on going to the gym on a Friday. They've got this time. And it's just a good, a good way because I think like during the week, That's when you can get in a lot more volume which then steers you, that tends to steer you a little bit away from, you know, the jumps and the, and the high intensity stuff that requires like low volume. And so then I, like, I I've just started introducing like low volume strength work on that Friday and I'm seeing nothing negative. So I'm like, well, if we can get this extra step strength stimulus in, in season, and actually not, not only have it not be a negative on that game, it's actually a positive on that game. Like why would we not do it, you know, outside of the potential, just inconvenience of training the day before a game, but once people wrap their mind around it, that they're okay. Do you ever have your guys in on the date after a game? Obviously this is the opposite. So a primary, like a sort of recovery session, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on if you have those guys in, on like a Sunday.

Fraser 35:27

Yeah. Well, we actually played on some of these, one of these, the recovery. They need to go in, and this is recovery itself led. So they have various options, which can be a 20 minute flush session on the bike. It can be going to the pool 20 minutes, like easy to attain, you know session followed by stretching. I've even included a really brisk walk with the Mrs of the dog followed by stretching. So it's not something that I it's something I see a lot of value in, I think is really, really important. And if you want to perform, like, as soon as you, you know, the better you recover, the better your you're going to be ready to start your performance dreaming. But it's a decision that we made to not not sort of hold their hands on, you know, give them the information. And at the start of the season, we run those sessions. For the first three or four sessions, you know, we went to the pool, we're showing them exactly. So there's clarity on what it is that will make you feel better. And also, I know that some of them might not do it, but by doing it with me the first couple of times it might be, Hmm. I actually feel better doing that last night. So I think I will continue with that so that that's how we can operate the recovery sessions. Yeah, so you see value in it, but I saw some point, you know, the boys have got just, you know, take care of themselves and get what needs to be done, done without leaving

TJ 36:51

their, but that's, that's the huge thing is getting their buy-in. I think that's like once you've done it and people feel that they understand that they feel better. They'll go. And particularly with the flush sessions are, you know, for people that have to go into a gym off the goes to somewhere to go do it like any day where you've just got to do some sort of conditioning or aerobic work. Most of the time you're going to be staring at your trainers and you'd be like, ah, can't be bothered to do this. This is a waste of time. I'm just going to, you know, there's just so much, so many other things that people can do with their time. But they always feel better after. And so, you know, if you hold their hand, I like that approach. If you hold their hand through it, then they're like, oh, I didn't think I was going to, this was gonna work, but I actually feel so much better. So now I want to keep doing it. And hopefully they keep remembering that because sometimes they don't.

Fraser 37:40

And I mean, you know, you've got levels of. Let's say athletic commitment program. There's even guys that go too far and, you know, coming in not to train anyone, but I'm just coming in to treat myself. And of course the guy that is, he's done his flush session, he's done a stretchy, but now he's smashing it super sets of biceps with shrugs and some sort of like, look buddy tomorrow, we're going to train pretty hard. Like, don't do that. I still thought, you know, I'm happy to go to like bumping me on this, but like, relax.

TJ 38:12

That's funny. Is there, do, do you differentiate with different levels of experience as far as autonomy on their training? You mentioned that with the recovery stuff that is, is fairly autonomous, is, do, do you leave older guys to, or more experienced guys to choose either volumes or exercises or anything like that?

Fraser 38:32

Oh yeah. I mean, probably about I kind of look at the core of when you put the young guys that just have no sort of decision-making to do when they're just learning how to school breaks up, all that stuff for the older guys that are further along or the higher training age and exercise selection. Absolutely. There's always extra there's on the Olympic lifts on what, which squat you want to prefer. The only, the only thing there is that once you decided to, okay, we've got this block of six weeks, you're doing trap bar that's, that's what you're doing. You're doing trap bar for the next six weeks, because there's a skeleton program of, of, you know, volume that we need to do with the intensity. So so that's, that's good. And then there are options of pop-ups. If someone's got, say a body con, they know that they can come in right at this time and I'll be there and this'll be the session. But we'll just have that conversation. When we start the block of like, okay, well, what is it you're looking for for this block? What is the focus? Here's the scale around? So we use the, like, you have to come for these sessions. Here's the optional sessions, which he, you know, this guy, this guy is not going to, because he's got more time out with the rugby coach doing some absolute speed work. But for you, I think we'll get more and thinking into next season as well. I think we'll get more bang for our buck by putting a bit more volume through you on the Friday. As an, as an example this way we're setting you up to sort of gain some, some lean muscle mass, which if you're a 23 year olds tight head prop, that's not, you know, that's not the worst thing in the world to do that.

TJ 40:11

Yeah. So you can, you, you can also individualize, so you've got a skeletons, but then you can come like to really give, govern the the overall overriding processes and. Volumes and intense is, but you've got also lots of individual stuff. And what I like about that is that it can be physical stuff. As far as like getting, I don't know, like, you know, again, stronger necks or getting stronger particular body parts or whatever it is, or, or it can even be a specific skill. Cause you know, you can think about it from a physical standpoint where, how much recovery are you demanding of your body, but you can also think of it as a time aspect of, well, how much time have you got in a day to do this stuff?

Fraser 40:53

Yeah. And that's where, you know, there's, there's more or, well, not only me, but the pros have, you know, I've got a good group of 15 guys that are there two times. So they have more of those options because they have more time that let's go straight to the other guys that work full time and come in and hit three times a week training, which is Jim based on rugby based, they'll have autonomy around like telling me they can't do this exercise. Or like, they'll never say I can't do this exercise, but they'll ask me about this exercise because they've been sat down all day, blah, blah, blah. And your strength session that day. If you're an amateur, it might be, you need to do this mobility socket. I'm going to write this up on the wall because you, you know, you were in Milan in the car, you drove back to here, it's an hour and a half away. We could like do your heavy squat that you were supposed to do, but then you're probably not going to do well is probably gonna like mess you up. Because you have to go into rugby and you have to complete a Romney session. You have 60 minutes. So, you know But that would just be a bit stupid to do so. Yeah, I guess there's, there's some in two different parts, but it's always kind of gated by just a good conversation around like, what's best for you. Like I know the rugby coach needs from you. I know we need from you to weekend. I know what we need from you to use time from now. Like, and you've just told me what's happened in your life today. Like, this is what I think is the best solution. What do you think there's one time now that we're talking about this, I had an example flashed into my head where the boys were under the fatigue because we weren't playing and we were going to have your block of training, right? Okay. Yes. We need fatigue. We need, we need stress, the adaptation, sorry. And it was, it was, it was getting a bit much from, and it was just kind of, you know, I, I said to him, I was like, look, man, you're not going to get faster. As we go with this block is to get faster. You're not going to get past. Do you mean like the first 20 minutes of the session you you're like not running fast enough to get fast. You're still warming up. Cause you're saving yourself. I don't know what you're saving yourself for. And like, I can be quite direct with my guys because they know one of the best for them. Like I'm not admitting that they care, but like just honestly like, like it's okay if you don't get faster for me, I'm just, don't expect to get faster. And we ended up being nice to the white board. Write up your week of training that you want to do. Right, right up the week, Monday, Tuesday, Monday, choose that Roper schedule. There's polar Monday. Then we have the lower buddy left Monday night, Tuesday. We've got the circuits Wednesday often. He was a bit confused like, well, is this, is this a trick? It's not trick me. Like I want you to, to right. Cause this guy, this guy is really, really good rugby player. And he, he's not, he's not an old rugby player, but like he's, he's not under the start of his career. So I'd say he's like sort of mid in the middle of his career in his prime. And you could, you know, he wants to take some, some initiative. Awesome. So, okay. You, you write up what you want from this. What, like, in terms of what the days could look like for you, then we'll have a conversation. Like I'm not saying like that's going to be completely possible, but let's work out around dropping it up. And it turns out the exact same thing that we, we already kind of had planned. And I was like, okay, for me, this seems like it's more of a fatigue management thing. So listen, let's do this. And we kind of came to a unified sort of agreement for the week and then what it might be like, but also the. Knowing that, that fatigue we'll get, we'll get pulled off you because we're taking away volume. I'm so sorry. I went on a big run there.

TJ 44:20

It just had a flood. It's not a, it's a good example. It's like sometimes people, well, I think it's a lot of things. Like I think that's the benefit that we touch on at the beginning is having like that year long, macrocycle knowing that you're going to do other things at other times gives you license to not worry about that when you're not doing it. And it's not the focus. Right? So like when it's speed, you're, you're thinking, oh, you know, I'm resting too much. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm going to be, get, I'm gonna lose my fitness or whatever. And it's like, we're not working this fitness particularly for this session, but especially for speed, we want you to be as fast as you can for each one, because when it comes to repeat sprint ability, the biggest influence on repeat sprint, it really is your top end speed. So if you're slow, it doesn't matter how fit you are. You're just going to maintain, being slow. Whereas if you're fast, like, and that's been shown time and time, and again, in research, it's like people that maintain maintain the best repeat speed ability, which just because they were really fucking slow to begin with. And so that's not what you want. Like, it sounds like they maintain that speed was trash. So a hundred percent perfectly into the

Fraser 45:32

next question.

TJ 45:45

Oh, sorry. So. My pre-training screening process has done, like on a weekly basis. They have, they have license within each week to then, you know, pull back if they're feeling off or whatever, but for the most part, you know, we'll set a schedule for the week, depending on what their work and social schedule looks like for the weekend, rub your schedule, of course. And w we'll plan it out like that. And, and then we'll we'll if, if we dip too hard into fatigue, we'll, we're, we're react to it the next week, but overall, actually it works out pretty fine. Do you, as someone that's in there in the gym with them, every single session, is there a pre-training and process that you do with them each day, each warmup or something that you go through to guide those adjustments that you you'd like to make?

Fraser 46:30

This season? No, I'll be honest with you. So in terms of, let's go in season, post game, you know, we've got the physio pack in and the medical triage, and then you get the information. Okay. Who's modified, who's not modified. I used to do wellness data. I didn't like it. In my situation, I can see why big organizations need wellness data. But to be honest with you, like, I wasn't going to be, I, I could check it in the morning and see what guys are reporting, but I wasn't ever going to use that data again. So I was like, why am I doing that? Why don't I just do what I'm doing anyway and save everybody time. And just when they arrive in the morning, Tuesday morning, our first performance session, I'm like, Hey man, Here's the shoulder hoes hoes. When we go on to, and I used to also before COVID, I used to do velocity profiling, which I like may do it again, but this season, again, I've, I've, you can just, when you knew your athletes and you've already used for like period of time, even for sessions, they've lost the beast training, you can kind of know where that guy's squat and slow today. So he's not going to be able to hit 85% even for three, which is, which is fine because he's strong. So it's going to be quite taxing on him. He already told me he's a bit fatigued. So you just go in and set reps up. And I used to do a pre pre-session briefing for every session. No, what happens is the guys come in and then music on cue straight down to the ground for the grownup ability, which is individualized. And I'll just go round every one of them at this point and be like, blah, blah, blah, quick conversation. All right, listen. The main left. As the trap bar, you're going to use one 60 for your first set and then we'll see how we go. Okay. Okay, cool. Hey, you, you gotta use, you know, one 60, but for all five, six, cause you know, we'd need to pull to load with you in more volume and you didn't play the weekend. It should be good. Like you. Yup. Yup. Cool. I think that, that has been quite refreshing because I'm sentenced, but I'm doing less work, but I'm being more impactful. I feel,

TJ 48:30

yeah. Now I made the same switch and I think I did it a few years back with, as far as like we would do I've done it with people in person where we've tried broad jumps or, or vertical jumps just to gauge it. Or we've tried a little mini questionnaire based on, you know, you, you give yourself a rating out of 10. And then we've, I've also tried like with the strength stuff, like, and we'll still be flexible with the strength stuff. And this is something we still might do is like, you know, here's your first set and then do the other sets based on how that first one feels. I think that's for a general approach anyway is always good. I don't think that's particularly something that's just for rugby. Yeah, a hundred percent. And even like, I know guys that do that, like the, you know, their, their focus is just power lifting because as we've already said, stress is stress. And sometimes if you've been in the car for too long or you've had a fight with the misses or whatever it is, like, you're just not feeling it and that's fine. But then re ramen your head against a brick wall. Doesn't help. Now, as far as the, the power stuff goes, I just think, I think sometimes there's a little bit too much data that turns athletes off and there is a definitely an intuitive thing about. Like, how, how do you explain, like the Barbeau the barbarians or how do you explain people that get like, there are some people that play their best games after having not on the boots. So we can't say that this it's a stupid, that's not to say everyone does that. Right. But it's true. So there must be something there must be a lot more psychological than, than we can, we can get through data. So having a conversation with people is massive, right?

Fraser 50:08

Yeah, I glad you said that. When we were doing weekly CMGs in the, using the jumper on the Tuesday before the session our, so our winner who, who scored like terribly, terribly was like four to eight is usually a 56 jumper, new arm swing. And I was like, oh God. Right. Okay. He's tired. He's tired. But he seemed like he was okay. It was just a bit, it wasn't ready yet. It wasn't like in the session. So obviously with the public planes, I was like, we're gonna like just 80 kilos. Let me see it. As he got into the session, he hit PB perfectly. He hit one 20 kilograms and I was like, right. He started, the music was only started, but like you said, the psychology is so important. I think the data, yeah, we can eat that. It's really good to track. And if you have lots of if you have a lot of stuff and you can build on it and you can get your five and 10% in two and a half percent and work at fatigue, but I think it's not, it doesn't paint the whole picture. So yeah, it's interesting. Isn't it? How much psychology can affect affect performance and, you know, it can be, it can be a difference of five minutes as well as it crazy. Yeah.

TJ 51:16

I mean, at the end of the day, we do everything with our brains. Like the body says. The brain kind of governance. It's difficult. Cause then you've got, it's why I didn't like sports psychology when I was in universities was because it's all, there's no, it's so hard, so much harder to quantify everything. And so as sports science people, you know, it's not, it's getting definitely not pushed to the side, but it is just, it's just, people are resistant to it because it's difficult to quantify things. So we can have things that are quite difficult to quantify. Actually, this is easy to quantify. Have you got for you still got 15 minutes left or so to.

Fraser 51:58

Yeah,

TJ 51:59

beautiful. Difficult to quantify now is how sort of grappling has influenced your coaching? So you're a judo athlete. You're now joined everyone. It seems that's been doing BJJ. I thought I was late and then, and then since I've come, like so many other people are joining because I'm happy because it's just, I'm unhappy. Cause it's not the people that I, whose air I chew off. And I tell everyone that I asked me about it, that they should go and do it, but everyone seems to be doing that. So it's really good. Is there something from judo or BJJ that's influenced, like as rugby players is the skill or your shanking condition? How you go about train your

Fraser 52:38

athletes? Yeah. Lots of things. Lots of things, I guess. You know, my, my background and grappling is, is I started with a university after taking the assignment of rugby and time to kind of recover from, from shoulder surgeries

TJ 52:52

due to having

Fraser 52:52

to recover. So didn't have to recover. That sounds good to say it not more, it's just as brutal. Oh yeah. W when I started, so I had, you know, I finished rugby and then I had like three years, I think of just getting my shoulder. Right. And after surgery, there's two, two surgeries that were just not successful. And that came down to strength and conditioning is a big part of why I'm a strength coach. And then, and then I played a year of uni rugby just to make mates. Cause I was, I got my shoulder a point where I could play sort of, you know, completed rugby, just not the level that I wanted to play. But then after that I was kinda like, all right, I've made mates, rugby is good, but I want, I want a new challenge. And yeah, judo certainly was that for me. And there's lots of things I learned like, like, you know, I was involved in, you know, in judo is like BJ, you know, the sparring, but when it got to a certain level, obviously after a certain time, this wasn't the straight away God. No. But you could go to the national center for Randori, which is sparring with people that are fighting for great Britain, which is just another level. So things like what great. I mean to go through the process of, of getting your judo black belt, there's a technical way to get a black belt and then there's the, you know, you fight for your belts. So, you know, I was always aware of how much work is required by doing rugby. Okay. And being involved probably. But I think judo took it to another level because just some of those guys like sleep limits, Tommy they'll train in the morning, sleep on at the Tommy, wake up train in the afternoon, ease and food, sleeping lifted Tommy, and then the books aren't. So that was the huge, that was a huge, did it reinforce it, that it just really is and how unimportant to strength and conditioning can be if I can say that. So I did my first Okay. My first to fight, to find out, you know, what is all about after six months of training, I don't know. And I was against the black belt and I was yellow belt, which I think in BGG terms is like a white belt with a three or four top two tops. And I was in the, I was in the best shape of my life. I was like, I was like, oh, you know, I say best shape is in body composition. I'm strong. And I was strong. Everything was good. Okay. Perfect preparation from SSC for the view. I go in with my yellow belt, this black belt is like feeling, feeling good movement. You know, he's a, he's an old boy who's won British championships, but he's, he's, he's just, there is a social judo for him. Okay. I'm there like ready to fight. It feels me out 90 seconds. Boom chow. I'm, I'm throwing from about with force really good force and I'm knackered, I'm like 90 seconds and I'm like feeling sick. This guy's just like, give me, give me a hand up. Okay. You'll acquisition was really highlighted to me then, and not going through that process, you know, help my judo. And I think that the philosophies of judo really influenced my personality and my approach and permanency and doing BGG to circle back to that. I could talk all day, but grappling some, sorry. Circle back to really. There's not a lot of adults that are doing digital. Everyone kind of the thing about judo is there's still a power element to judo because you're, you're, you're on your feet by going to the ground and you take that away really. So BGG is a bit more friendly, I would say to you. I know, obviously there's, there's, there's there's levels to okay. But you removed a guy could be a big guy. Cause that's what the original sort of idea you're using your legs more than your Ron's you, you know, we guys can be a big guy. Awesome. So when I came to Italy, I was late and I entered some tournaments before like open grappling tournaments, just to see how might you do it going? But that's what I sort of kicked on the BJJ because I saw that there wasn't not much to do around here, but there was, there was, there was a lot of DDJ. And I think the, the same principles apply that I learned from judo to BJ with the skill acquisition, the patients When you're in competition because I'm competing although of, of the engine. But this is the preparation, which is for me, is, is the philosophy of Kaizen, which is taken from Japanese philosophy, just around making daily improvement on whatever, whatever your focus is. So for me, that strength and conditioning, that's really important. And then when you're actually competing and when you're in the moment where you need to be in the moment being present the motion, if I'm saying that correctly, if I'm not holidays is where you're kind of reminded you're open, you've got all your training, you know, everything's done, you just need to be present and react. And that, I think going through that process has helped me understand some of the guys' mindset when, when you need to play. And the fact that in what I'm going to do, note and let you talk is on game day. Best. Just shut up, get in the way, support

TJ 57:53

the team. Yeah. I dialed that back a lot as a, as an actual rugby coach as well. Like it's, and, and I think that's a little influence from presenting jujitsu, but it's just, you know, yeah. You've got all the tools me shouting. Isn't going to help you. It's just going to overwhelm you a little bit more, you know what I'm saying might even be wrong. And that's one of the things I actually, I don't like as much about presenting Susan competition. Like there is a good deal of coaching on the mats that will tell you exactly what to do. Like, and I think, I don't know. I don't like it, but it's, it's, it's there and it's that, I don't think it's going to change, but I don't. I personally don't like it like the whole point is that if it's one-on-one battle, if you've then got a coach in the corner who sees a leg, that's sneaking somewhere that it's not supposed to be, or someone's getting a sneaky grip, like calling that out. It's like, I dunno, I don't, I don't like. I think it should be mano, a mano, you know I don't like and I think what you said about as far as like being in the moment is, is, is huge as far as like just getting your skills down. And everyone knows anyone that's listening has grappled. It's when you're a white belt, it's, you know, BJJ is like absolutely one of the best things you can do for your fitness. And then the better you get the less work it is. And now like I'm a purple about, and I can just, I'll go with white or blue about sometimes, and there'll be, they'll go so hard and I'll just be relaxed. And, you know, maybe I'll only, I won't get as much success as I could do if I was trying really hard, but I'm just practicing my skills and I'm practicing my reactions. And I think that's a big influence that I've had as far as like getting, we love getting, you know, we can, we can really measure progress quite well in the gym because we've got weights, we've got volumes, we've got things, attract body composition, everything. When it comes to rugby skills and stuff, it's a lot more difficult to quantify. You know, you're not even with like things that you could, you could potentially quantify how far you pass it or how far you kick it. But that's still not really relevant, particularly when you're talking about like game sense. And we spoke about like agility as well. You can measure how far someone can do the, the T test or whatever, but wherever that means shit for their ability to, to break through the line and find a gap, or make a tackle against someone that's step in like that. No, that doesn't, it doesn't work like that. So there is something to be said about getting lots of reps in of just different aspects of rugby. And I think that's something that I really took to lead like this. You got brown and black belts that have been doing this for 10 years, and they're still just working in basic triangle mechanics. And it's the same thing. When you look at professional rugby players, like. That's all the top scrum half's fly. Half's whatever they're doing, their kicks, they're doing their basic pass in there, all those drills. And then you look at the amateurs and you know that they're there 15 minutes early for training, and they're just sort of standing around, passing the ball around in a circle, would that with our strong hand and whatever, you know, I think that's, if we can get, if you can move that across and again, you do that Fujitsu as well, where people would just, you know, every open mat ends up just being around Dory rather than working some, some positions, specific stuff. You know, w w we're humans at the end of the day, we want to do the stuff that we like and that we're already good at. But if you can work on your weaknesses, you can work on your skills. It's in the moment. It's probably less fun, but I think longterm a lot more of.

Fraser 1:01:20

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny. You mentioned that by the 15 minutes, you guys passing the ball a bit, that's something that we, we brought in this year as that individual time, like I know teams use at the end of the session to work on whatever your skill is. We actually had trouble with that with our squad that we brought it in at the start and individual work skill, right? Some of the guys to be fair. And this is a, this is a coaching. This is, this is from the staff that we need to address is that weren't really a hundred percent sure what drill they should be doing. So for next year, that's one thing that we want to, we want to bring back. But we want to have a bank of exercises that okay. Like, okay. Number nine is a bit of an easy example, but when you're a 13 and then we've noticed this in your games, this is, this is the three exercises that probably going to serve you best in 15, 50 minutes. And like you said, it's not, it may not be the most fun thing to do. But it is on game day when, oh, you're in that position, you need to say to involve, like, you've nailed it because you've done, you know, a hundred reps on Tuesday and Thursday.

TJ 1:02:24

So yeah. It doesn't even take a hundred reps. Right. People say that and it sounds overwhelming. Like sometimes it just takes like 10 reps, like, you know athletes I've been coaching with are struggling dealing with the high ball. I'm like, all right, practice it once. And then all of a sudden it's like, it's instantly better. Cause you actually thinking about that process. Same thing for what we said for speed. I guess it's all aspects, right? You need to, you need to do what you want to improve. So last two questions, number one. And this is something I'm, I'm touching on quite a lot because my own personal biases. But with your athletes, do you use any sort of meditation as far as recovery goes or maybe for the psychological benefits or anything like that? Or is it something you leave to them for their own devices?

Fraser 1:03:08

I don't, I don't do anything of that. Short

TJ 1:03:11

answer. I like it. All right. Fair enough. That's have you, have you used anything as far as any psychological training with them, or do you have someone on staff that does that as well? Or is it part of their own aspect that they work

Fraser 1:03:24

on? Yeah, no. If, if a player asked me about a freezer, wouldn't you think of a meditation? Or can I start incorporating this then? I would be absolutely. Like when, when are you thinking of doing that? That's really a good time to down-regulate before you go to sleep or really a good time to down regulate. You know, after the session, before, you know, your six hours before this session, I'll gate, the dome regulation via you know what we're doing in the week, but I'm not a psychologist. And I'm not, I'm not here to pretend I'm some sort of expert on that. I'm not, so I'll say, okay, I'm going to say SNC coach. What we're really talking about here is don't regulation, which is really important for recovery, which is I'm so happy that, you know, The best would be the best times. I think you could fit it in. If you want to learn more about it, like show me where you're getting this information from and let's have a conversation. Cause I'm interested in understanding what it is that you're wanting to bring into your own training and good job for being proactive. That would be my kind of conversation. If an athlete came up to me, which hasn't happened yet, so

TJ 1:04:33

maybe we can hope. Yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe it'll give, show them this podcast and listen to, and I think, yeah. Or maybe they already do it and they don't tell you about it or they don't talk about it because they think it's, we were who knows?

Fraser 1:04:45

Maybe, maybe. Yeah. But I would completely encourage that. I know a lot of the guys kind of, and it's not meditation, it's not is, is more social socialize really, but it's a way that it doesn't regulate is Just so some of them after the session, sit down on the maps with the ball, have a chat, other stretch. Totally. They just totally like clear legs. No, no, we never spoke about it. And then they'll play this little kicking game back and forth really casually. And that's not meditation, that's just socializing, but it's a way of recognize that it can, down-regulate after we've hyped up the music for an hour and we'd been like thrown banter back and forth and hitting targets. But yeah I have to be honest, I've never mentioned the gateway that, or brought that in because I'm not, it's not, you know, kind of a bit of my lane there. I wouldn't be comfortable like with someone with

TJ 1:05:36

that, but that's, that's actually why I asked the question because you know, I've toyed with the idea of incorporating it. And the most I've really done is just encouraged people to look into it, to see if they want to do it. And if they don't, you know, I'm not giving any more pushes, but as you say, like that's not, we're not psychologists, we're not meditation teachers or whatever. Like our job is, is physical. And like I say, psychological helps physical, but you know, that's how it goes. Last question then what are some one-off physical changes or one-off changes the athletes can make that will have the biggest payoff for them. I say, I say, what are some, give me one, give me a top.

Fraser 1:06:18

Right? I'm going to go I'm going to go with psychology then, because based bang for your speaking. Every every one. I mean, I'm going to make an assumption here in a way it's statement, but you could probably look back five years, three years, 10 years ago and be like, man, why, why was I doing that? I would be so much better here if I just did this action 10 years ago, I can see the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today. I think if you can, if you go through that process, you know, thinking respectively retrospectively and then think, okay, what am I doing now? And what was my goal to be a better player or whatever in 10 years time will I, will I look back and think, man, why didn't I get apparel there to get to the gym to do that? Because it goes a little bit tired in the here and now, or because I was too lazy or, you know, in set whatever example. But I think the biggest change people can make is. All right. I'm now 10 years older, where are my, what were my actions, you know, here? And is there something that I can change that, that will affect my goal that, you know, I don't know what that change may be, but I just think we can get a lot more out of even neon. This is, I'm thinking about my self and every season I'll have a new, you know, lots of new ideas and I have to pick maybe three or whatever, but I'm just thinking, wait, why didn't I bring that in? Or why didn't I think of that? Or, yes, that action. I need to do every day to, to whatever, you know

TJ 1:07:53

No, that's, that's actually a bloody brilliant answer. It's one that I didn't know, I would say, but now I know that that would be my answer as well. So it's like, because it's, it goes both ways because you know, if you, if you look back on your last year and you're like, oh, these are the things I thought I was going to do. And I didn't even bother doing them because I wasn't really proactively thought about it. Then you haven't gained any knowledge, even if you've done something in like, you know, maybe like, like we say, we tried with the counter movement jumps or the broad jumps to, to measure those already. You did that. I didn't quite work well, what you said, where your primary, you know, you try it and if it doesn't work, at least then you've got the data to say, okay, I'm not going to waste my time with that anymore. I'm going to do something else. But I think a lot of people. Come at this from a reactive standpoint, they just see stuff and then they just do it and they see what other people are doing and they just copy it. Whereas if you, if you take some time and initiative to write down exactly what it is, and he doesn't, you know, you don't have to write a book and a pen, a pen and paper and write it down. You can just put it on your notes, but it's, and have it somewhere that you can remember it. But if you proactively write down what it is that you want to achieve, and then how you're going to go about doing it, even if you don't achieve it, as long as you come back to it and you say, okay, I messed this up, but you'll, you'll get a reason why, and then you fail again. But you know, you can fail five years on the road, but if you get it on the sixth, that's more chance of success than if you never did that. And you never actually took any steps. Yeah, totally agree. Thank you for giving me that answer. All right. Plug your, your socials and your website. How can people follow more for a YouTube or Instagram, find out more about what you do cause you do online coaching as well.

Fraser 1:09:35

Ooh. Yes. Yes. Well I'm on YouTube at school, Jeff MD bit of a boring really story we don't need to get into, but YouTube, I, Jeff same on Instagram at coach FMT and my, the website was shot just this year, you know, put that up. It's rugby strength and conditioning.com and there are a few blog posts that people might be interested. Then if they're looking at primers and wanting to know more that's cool. And yeah, that's, that's kind

TJ 1:10:01

of, it we'll follow along with your stuff. Thanks for joining me. This has been, this has been a really good chat and I thank you for giving me that answer for that last question, because I've asked, I've asked it to a few people and now that's like, oh yeah, that's, that's the exact change

Fraser 1:10:14

that was going to stop on this new phone.